The Five Stages Of Healing That Create Lasting Transformation with Anat Peri

Mark Porteous: Ana, Hello. Today's guest is Anat Peri, founder and CEO of training camp for the soul, and creator of the TCS method certification. Anat works with coaches, healers, transformational leaders who are ready to deepen their capacity to hold space for real, lasting change. Her work focuses on helping practitioners navigate complex client dynamics, release trauma patterns, and guide people through emotional and subconscious transformation with clarity, confidence and integrity. What I appreciate most about anats approach is that it's not just about learning more tools, it's about becoming the kind of leader who can facilitate true transformation without burning out over giving one of the big problems we often have, or losing themselves completely in the process. I'm excited to explore what really means to lead at that level and not welcome to leading with purpose.

Thank you, Mark, thanks for having me pleasure to be here.

Mark Porteous: Yeah, it's gonna be fun, and I've already gotten to hear a little bit. But for those who aren't familiar, I'm curious what got you on this path. How did you get started on this journey of transformation for yourself?

Yeah, well, believe it or not, because I look younger than I am. That was 21 years ago that I started my self development journey prior to that, I think I always had an interest in the way that our mind works. I wanted to major in psychology. I just didn't want the eight years of traditional schooling as related to that. Yeah, it was just not my learning style. You know, I'm more experiential. So in my mid, mid 20s, you know, jumped into an in person experience, which, you know, back in those days, was in a big, you know, hotel room with few 100 people, and a lot of it was mindset work and NLP, which is definitely valuable and part of The experience, but not what creates full, lasting transformation. Now, granted, at the time, I didn't realize that. I didn't come in there and say, like, Oh, this is this is missing some parts. I thought it was the Holy Grail. And I was just in awe of witnessing people just have their first aha moment, which aha moment now I know is, is just stage one of healing in five stages. It's just the awareness, it's it's the light bulb moment to oh, that's why I am the way that I am, or that's the thing that's keeping me stuck back then, I used to think that was it, and it sucked me in, in a good way of wanting to continue to explore and get to know myself. And I spent years in in leadership roles of learning to coach and facilitate inside of this one organization, and I became someone that had a ton of awareness, knew a lot, definitely developed great skills for listening and asking questions, but my life was a fucking mess. Can I curse be real? I had no idea that I didn't love myself, but I had no self love, no connection to my body or my emotions. Lived completely in my logic in my head, was very codependent in my relationships, and felt like there was a constant windstorm, like I'd say it's actually was more like a black hole in my chest that I would collapse into that can never be filled.

Anytime I was by myself, anytime I was alone, that was the feeling that I was like running from and so as much as possible, I avoided spending any time with myself, or if I did, I was constantly distracting myself. And you know, this was, this was my reality for honestly, the first eight, nine years of my self development journey. So it's like, what? What the heck? You know like here you are, developing, growing, but not making any real movement in it. And it was at that point that I hit my rock bottom, left a five year relationship, left New York City, where I was living with $2,000 to my name, $40,000 in debt, most of which was self development, no car, no job, one friend in California, and that was 13 and a half years ago, and I was very aware that whatever I thought I knew at that point was bankrupt was clearly not giving me the result if, like I had no no self love and no clue. And it humbled me. To You know, those of us that grow up on the northeast, we have a bit of this, like, cocky attitude of like, oh, like, if I can make it here, I can make it anywhere, and just, like, push through and force through and just do it and just go and just be a hustler. And I was a hustler, but this experience humbled me to stop hustling and to surrender and to just start listening and letting go of thinking that I knew what was best for me, and it led me down this journey of discovering from going into mindset and NLP to the world of somatics, the world of like, breath work and meditation and yoga and plant medicine, and like, oh my god, I'm in my body for the very first time. What is this thing?

And then thinking that was the Holy Grail, to a year later, realizing, and I'm still in the same patterns. I'm still attracting the same type of men. I still uncomfortable with myself. Nothing has changed yet. And then I met my mentor, who was a body mind psychologist for 40 years. At that point, he's no longer with us, but boy, was he a brilliant man, and he said to me, You're different. You're here for finishing touches. You know, a lot. I'm like, oh my god, yeah, I have so much awareness, but I just didn't know what to do with it. And the work I did with him was the inner child work was really bridging the gap between, yes, we have awareness, yes, we need somatics and emotions and to feel all that. But there's also the subconscious. There's also what we learned from mom and dad. There's just so many facets and layers, and it was my first time experiencing that transformation. Is not a walk in a park on a beautiful, sunny day with a lot of popcorn aha moments, but it's more of a walk through a burning forest where you are feeling the heat, you are feeling things that you never wanted to feel before, and there's some dragons to slay. And to me, that was like, Okay, I'm in it right now. I'm definitely shedding some stuff. And on the other side of that, the level of inner peace and freedom that I experienced was what I've been seeking my whole life. And he said to me, you have a real gift. Would you ever want to do what I do? And I was like, nah, nah. I don't want to sit in an office and see people like I thought to myself, in my mind, like, No, I don't want to be seeing people for an hour in an office every day. Send the appeal to me. But I just wasn't ready. I went off and I traveled for eight months. Wanted to be by myself, enjoyed my own company for the first time, and then was ready. Was awakened to I'm really called to guide people to experience what I've been seeking at that point for 10 years. That's when I met Mark and Shannon. Actually, they're

my first business coaches, and I started just coaching and helping people to move through what I moved through, not ever expecting to be where I'm at today, which is having a certification program where I'm mentoring others in a method. But a year into it, I had clients say to me, I want to learn to do what you do. And I heard it for three, four years before I really paid attention, listened and took action on it. And so here I am now, 11 years later, and I, you know, still still work with some private clients. I'm still in the healing work of it with others and myself, every layer, constant journey. Yes, at every level, there's a devil, right and but really loving that I get to now pass on a proven method that is very complete to coaches that are struggling. You know, I was just, I was just, guess, teaching for this woman in her community of practitioners and and, you know, it's astounding how many of them, and I think you said this in the beginning, lack the, you know, are in are an over giving our coaching, feeling like, Well, I'm not doing enough, and I need to make sure that they get something, and they're just in this overcompensating and doubting that they could be the coach, the practitioner, to help their client actually have lasting transformation. And took them through my method, through the experience, and I took one of the women through it, while everybody else witnessed. And that woman was just she was blown away by how much she has been running from things, running from her own emotions. And. Like where, where that is blocking her in her work and supporting others. And so, yeah, it's, it's a gift and an honor to serve where I am today.

Mark Porteous: And it's interesting because you're talking a little bit about your method, but you emphasize mastery, not just methods. What would you say is the difference between knowing techniques and actually being able to embody the ability to guide someone through real transformation?

Yeah, it's a couple things. One is that you do, you do need to have a certain level of embodiment yourself. And I know that's nothing new if you're listening to this like, yeah, duh. But like, what that actually means? Like, this woman that I just guided on this call is a master, you know, Reiki practitioner, healer, intuitive guide, is how she calls herself. And she had to face the fact that like she's been, you know, pushing and pushing and pushing and pushing and thinking like she's not doing enough, when what she really has been avoiding is actually feeling what's there. And so I don't even know that people really get the depth of what embodiment is that you as a practitioner get to hold for yourself, because when you do things just become easy, and then also mastering and knowing a complete process so that you're not wondering when you're in a session, will, will I be able to guide my client to something that lasts here, you know it, and you can Relax back in ease knowing that you have, that you have that process, there's no guessing game like when I started out, a lot of this was channeled through me. Like, yes, I had great mentors and I learned parts and pieces, but I used to go into sessions, and there was just so much trust in my system that, like, I just need to get out of my own way, and that, like divine power is going to channel through me and but at moments, I felt like I was solving riddles. I felt but I allowed myself to be so surrendered to that, that the method really like came through me, and that's what my clients don't have to do anymore. My students, is they don't have to solve it. They don't have to be in that. They can very clearly see the process and the steps and what stage a client is at and where to go with them, and what the depth is. And so there's there's ease, there's confidence, and then therefore, therefore they're not getting in the way.

Mark Porteous: It's very interesting, because I remember when I was in my 20s, I was I loved giving massage, and it was like, You should become a massage therapist, but then you had to go get learn how to do it the proper way. And I was always afraid, like, Oh, now everybody just compliments me, because it's just natural. Now I'm gonna have to go there and, like, do it technically, and I hope that, you know, it doesn't take away. And they're like, oh, no, I just learned all these things. I have a system and a structure, and so I understood what I was doing. I understood my natural gifts, and I could apply them much, much better. So I love that again. That's one of the big problems that you help many coaches address, which is that confidence thing. So many people are like, who am I? Or, you know, can I really make money with my gifts? And can I really make a change? Can I really help other people? So I love that you're addressing that you also brought up another one that I had mentioned earlier, which is around the over giving and the overwhelm, the being stretched too thin. I'm just curious. Again, they're getting drained by by the depth of the work that people are doing. What have you found is essential for holding powerful space for others without burning out or overextending yourself?

Yeah, so a knowing and learning how to self regulate in the moment. A lot of people think that they are self like, Oh, I do self care, yeah, no, you do self repair. You are burning it out. You are overwhelming your system. You are disconnected from yourself in a session, you're so in it, in the other clients world, that you've lost the connection to your breath, your body, your energy. And then after the session, or after three sessions. Sessions, because you have a busy day and it's 6pm you're collapsed on the couch, or you're taking a bath, and you call that self care, and I call that self repair, which, hey, is better than nothing, yes, but to avoid that need for self repair, what it looks like in every single moment, even right now as I'm speaking to you, caring for my nervous system, regulating in the moment, staying connected to my Breath and my body right now, keeps my field, my energy, my presence here, open and stabilizes me and builds enough of that the word is slipping me resiliency to support a client. So that's one part of it is like your part as a practitioner is, are you able to move your own energy, to stay connected to your own energy and breath as you are holding a client in their session, so that you're not in your head or totally out of body in their world. And what happens with those that practitioners that don't feel confident or trying to prove themselves, trying to make sure the client gets somewhere, because they feel that in every session there has to be some kind of win. I have to get them somewhere, and they make up the idea of what that's supposed to look like, is that they disconnect from they saw themselves, and they go into that force and that push, and that force and that push is actually what is keeping them from, what's Keeping the client from having the shift that they're ready for, because you're no longer holding a space and a field for them to move through whatever they're ready for. You are now trying to

do it for them. So it's exhausting you, and it's actually blocking the client. So understanding what it is to to hold the field and and when you know, and you have a process, like you were saying before about massage, I'm naturally gifted with my hands, like I'm sure you are. There's just like in some past life, I was definitely a healer, working, you know, with my hands. But there's a difference between having a natural gift to a complete process. Because there's, I'm sure things that when you went, did you go to massage? Did you go to school? Yeah, that when you went, you're like, oh, okay, yeah, I do this, but oh wow. Now that I know that there's also this part and this part, okay, like, that was the missing part of it that now completes the whole thing. So it great. We all have natural gifts, and if you're missing even just one part of the process, that gift doesn't get fully you know, gets, I don't even know what the word for it, it falls. It falls incomplete, is what happened. And because we're so reliant, when we go into the spaces, if you don't have a complete process, and you're reliant just on your gifts. You don't see the blind spots. You don't know what you don't know. And so then when it doesn't fully work, you disconnect from your gift, and you get into your head, and you go into force and and and doubt and overcompensation. And so this takes that guessing game out where you get to bring your natural gifts, and then you also get to strengthen in the parts that are necessary to create lasting transformation that may not be one of your gifts, but becomes part of the process.

Mark Porteous: I love the again, the holistic approach that you're looking at for healing, not just for the client but for the practitioner, to be optimal to help the client, and also to be optimal so that they can continue existing and performing everything else. And I know that your work includes somatics, inner child work and subconscious reprogramming for someone who senses there's there's more going on beneath the surface. With their clients, what's the first shift that they need to make so that they can listen and respond better?

Well, actually, I'm going to give. You the steps here, the stages of healing, because it falls right into that. You know, stage one is awareness. And when you hear that Mark, I'm going to put you, I'm going to put you in the hot seat. What do you think that is? What do I think awareness is? Yeah, yeah. If I was like, Okay, your first thing is, like, working with a client, and awareness, what? What would you imagine awareness entails,

Mark Porteous: Being awareness of the connection and the energy, both that we're feeling together, and what, what I'm seeing and recognizing in the client?

Yeah, perfect. So that's part of it, right? It's what. Where are they? What's their current state of their nervous system. Are there protectors that are up? Are there gatekeepers that are there, like, how, how present are they to being, even in their body, and then also the awareness of, well, what are the beliefs that are coming up and where, where, where are you holding that in, in your body. And so there's depth to go in the stage. And if someone is in resistance, so it's like, you uncover the like, Okay, well, we get you in your in, in, in connection to yourself. Kind of like, think about a surfer. They get to the beach. And I'm not talking about Florida, nice warm waters. Let's talk about California, Pacific Coast, you know, free, full water, big waves. Yes, you can't just run into the water. You got to stretch. The server stretches, and they put on a wetsuit to keep them warm. And so you want to think of this stage of awareness as the client yourself, or as a practitioner of they're in that stage of just stretching and getting familiar with what is showing up right now in the field, what's showing up right now in my system? Where am I at currently? And warming up the system by putting on that wet suit. And so there's a lot to listen for there, not just what they're saying to you, but where you feel that they're open and not open. So that's stage one, beautiful.

Mark Porteous: And you said there's five different stages, but that's what allows them to be in a place where then they can listen, so that they're better listening to the client and being aware of the situation that's that's going on, yeah,

And it's always and even though you're moving through a process, you're moving through it with with you're building upon it, I should say, so you're always still holding that field of awareness as they're continuing to move through and seeing if at any point they need more stabilization in that kind of like, okay, well, the surfer finally went and got into the water, which is stage two. Stage two is the somatic part. It's the Think of the water is actually the ocean of your emotions. You got to get in the body, and you got to feel the emotions. The emotion is energy in motion, just like every wave. And what happens a lot of times between stage one and stage two is there's some gatekeeper. There's something keeping them from going into it and actually riding the wave that's there. And so like this woman that I was just guiding. She was like, I'm super resistant. She's like, what's there is a lot of anger and sadness, and I'm super resistant to it. Like, Oh, hell no. The gatekeeper said, Hell no. And I say, I'm like, well, stage two acceptance. As a practitioner, I'm like, Well, you gotta even accept that. Like, what's there right now is resistance. So I'm like, great, be resistant. Let's ride that wave. And had her just express that. And she's like, pushing against it. She's pushing and she's pushing and she's pushing. She's resistant. She's holding it. She's pushing with her hands. She's and I'm like, Yeah, keep going. Keep going. And I'm just, I'm chill. I'm like, yep, that's what's there. Yep, keep going. And what happened within about 45 seconds or so maybe a minute, is she couldn't hold it back anymore, because she when you feel what's actually there even resistance your nervous system is going to process it through. And then, and then the emotion showed up, and then the sadness, and then she just could not hold back the tears. You see how easeful that was. Is where you don't know that you'd be like, Oh, okay, they're not ready. Oh yes,

so you're resistant. So tell me more about that. Let's talk about that. No, no, no, there's nothing to talk about. Let's get in the water. We're not going to talk about, you know, like, Do you think I'll be able to surf this wave or not. Surf this wave, you're gonna be like, scan the water, you stretch. You got your your wetsuit on, let's, let's meet, meet the doubt and the resistance, right? Yeah. And, and then she got to ride that wave of emotions, of sadness that was there. And and in this stage, it's so important that we let go of that there's anything wrong, that there's something to fix or to change, that you could learn to observe the sensations, which is the energy, and name those sensations, and then allow yourself to go deeper with well, what's the expression of it? Well, I'm sad, and to literally emote it, express it like a three year old would. And your job is to just hold that child and validate you got kids. What? What worked when they were kids and they were upset? Was it trying to talk to them about it, or just saying, Come here, let me hold you. It's okay. It's okay to feel that way. So that stage two is learning to accept and be with what is without trying to fix it. Because when that wave comes, you could question, why is it this size? Or I don't know that I want this wave. But then what happens? Yeah, and then you're starting over again, as opposed to writing it, you learn that you could actually move through an emotion in 90 seconds, emotion in 90 seconds when there's no resistance to it. And then what opens up, like what opened up for this woman was the she started to hear the voice of her inner child. She started to hear the beliefs that are creating, that sadness, the I'm not good enough, and I'll always be alone, and all these memories started to pop up for her. Where this came from. And that gets us into stage three. So when you do this, well, it just naturally moves into the next stage. There's no like so when do I go? When do I

check off the next box?

It just emerges in the system. And stage three is the getting to the root. It's dealing with the subconscious, because you could feel all the feels, like I spent years in the feels and years in the mind trying to understand right stage one of the awareness and let me feel all the feelings. But if you you could get addicted to that. I know people that are like, Oh, I love doing breath work. Why? Oh, man, I have the best releases, but then you're addicted to, okay, something that is helping you release, but you're not actually completing the transformation. Because you could have a good emotional release, but if you don't know the beliefs that are programmed in the subconscious around that then you're going to you're keeping the beliefs are the script, which means you're going to go out into the world the next day and you're going to act the same way. You're going to reinforce that script again. You're going to reinforce all those emotions that you moved through, you're right back in it. And so it's so important stage three that we uncover. Okay, you move through the energy in the body, but what's the subconscious holding here? Oh, all these beliefs of I'll always be alone. I'm never good enough. No one's ever going to support me. And the getting to the root is the exploration of the learning from mom and dad. Where did you learn this? Whose energy is this? Is it mom? Is it dads? Is it what you saw, what you heard, or what you felt from them? Is it how they made you feel? Did you copy, or did you rebel from it? And starting to revisit and again, you're not going to do this with a big T trauma, but safely revisit the times when you were in that scene and you were imprinted in that way and what you actually needed. So it so it was interesting with this woman is that it was her dad. But the problem is that if we start with Dad, if a client comes to you and their issues and challenges are related to their relationship or the work. Or their career

others, and you actually go to support them through that, they will never be able to hold it. It's like taking a brand new surfer and saying, we're going to Bali with the big kahuna waves. They're not going to be able to surf that. It's too much. And everything related to Father is something that lives outside of you. Dad wasn't you? He was the first love of your life. That wasn't self love? Was it mom? Was it connected to you? And so you can't control others in the world. And so there's a lot of heartbreak. There's big emotions there. And so something else to recognize that's important is that you always start with the foundation, self, aka mom. Mom was you and mom were connected. Milk, record, I'm mom. Is me. Mom is your foundation. How she's your role model for yourself. And so even though she brought up, oh, this was Dad, I said to her, yeah. And where was mom? Where was mom when dad was yelling at you, Oh, Mom was mom was hiding, yeah. And what did you need from mom? And she started to see where the way that she's been relating to herself, with this resistance, with this wall, with this I can't, I'm not allowed to feel what's there is exactly the way that mom was with her. Mom wasn't there for her. She needed mom to come and hold her and tell her it's okay, I'm here. You're safe, and I'm not going to let him talk to you that way. And she saw where she put up this barrier between her and her mom, and so you start to uncover that layer that's the getting to the root, and then going into stage four, re parenting and rewiring and the RE parenting is like, especially when it comes to self and mom. Well, mom is your role model for self. Then to repent that is to give yourself what you never got from mom. And so her learning that her first work to lay down a new foundation is to learn to hold herself and that it's safe to feel the emotions that are there and to be there for herself

and to protect herself. And so she got to move and come up with these new ways of relating to herself, these new affirmations, and that's the RE parenting is it? Yes, that's the RE parenting part. That's the RE parenting of mother, re parenting of father, looks very different. And like I said, they can't go into it. You can work with a client for at least eight sessions, at least two months, unless they've done a ton of work and they've so stable with themselves and how what's my check on that I'm like, on a scale of one to 10? How much can you say mark that you are your own inner best friend, inner cheerleader and inner nurturer. If you're like, Oh, I'm at a 10, okay, great. Then your relationship with yourself is solid. You're ready for bigger stuff. On a energetic level, what does that look like? Well, if you know how to nurture yourself, it means you know how to you know how to feel your feelings, because your inner child is your emotions. You're not just trying to gaslight yourself and tell yourself that you I feel good, I feel great, I'm fine, everything's okay. I'm going to be okay. You're not just telling yourself, you're holding yourself through that, which means you're moving energy, which means you're you're riding waves. You're actually getting into the ocean. And so mom, waves self. Waves are smaller. It's It's simple. It's learning to give yourself what you needed. It's the practice of that, that you're building your nervous system. You're building the capacity to handle the bigger emotions of father. Because here's the thing about Dad, he either lived up to the experience you had the first time he held you. Remember the first time you held your son and your daughter? Were you not just exploding with so much love and like ecstasy you were and they felt that, and that was their first experience of feeling something outside of them. Mom is not outside of them. I'm mom. Mom is me. They don't see separation, yet loving them and you

therefore become the role model for love in the world outside of them. It, and they hold you to this like I just want to keep feeling that. So every single person where you're boy or girl, doesn't matter male or female. We put dad up on a pedestal. We want to keep feeling that level of connection and love. But dads, they're not connected to their child the way a mom is. They're single, focused. You know, when they're hunting, they need to hunt. They're not like mom juggling 10 Things at home. It's just innately how we're built. And so if they don't know how to come back to that presence and that love and that time like my father didn't know. My father was a great provider. My mom stayed home. Mom. Dad worked. Dad was great in that sense. But how much time did he spend with this little girl? How much presents did he give her, one on one? Very little so she never got to feel that thing that that initial love. So he broke my heart. So every father either lives up to it, or he breaks your heart and there. And for this woman that I guided her dad had horrible anger issues and would yell and say horrible mean things, or she would hide under the couch. So there's bigger waves, bigger emotions, there's anger, there's grief there. So much so you could imagine, can the system actually feel through and heal this in the first session? If I took her there today, no way. No way. So re parenting father is building up the capacity in your system to feel that broken heart, to ride those bigger waves and to know that when you feel that grief, that anger, that you heal, that heart that you know, because, again, any emotion felt all the way through, can, can can be moved through in 90 seconds. And yes, grief and anger may have multiple waves of it, but eventually, where a person gets to is that their heart is healed and is open again, and they could know what I mean by heart is healed, is I can feel big emotions like anger and grief

and rage and disappointment and know that I'm okay. It's I can, oh my god, I'm riding the wave. Oh, my God, Mark, I'm riding the big kahuna wave right now. So then when I say, Well, now let's go to Hawaii, you're like, let's go. And how this translates in the world is that a lot of people because they haven't healed in that way. They haven't felt that yet. Are walking through life guarded, protecting your heart, not being vulnerable, not being open, because they don't want to ever experience that again. And then they wonder why their relationships aren't successful, and they wonder why they don't, can't be vulnerable with people, or open themselves or trust people. And they go into well, let me control people. Let me manipulate people. Let me overpower everyone. All survival strategies, as opposed to when you actually feel through this and you heal that original heartbreak, you now know that you can't control the world. Life is going to keep life in at you can't control others. You may get your heart broken again. You'll have better discernment. You're going to you're going to stand up for yourself and have boundaries and all that somebody may, you know, let you down or reject you, but all it's going to do is bring up that wave. And I've I rode that wave before, so my system is familiar with it. It's programmed in there something that my nervous system can tolerate. I am resilient enough to handle that, and that's where the courage comes to live in life playing out big.

Mark Porteous: And is that stage five? Then? Is that? Is that the final

Well, this is still the like opportunity of re parenting, right? I just gave you the context of what it is to repent father versus mother. It's very different. Stage Five is integration, and integration is and stabilization and it's the law. Stage you in one session, I can move someone through the first four, and sometimes it won't be the first session. Sometimes it'll take a few that's okay, but stage five integration is an 18 month journey, and it's to go for big parts of your identity, not the little things, little things, sure, it could be processed quicker, but if a big part of your identity is I'm a people pleaser, I don't know how to say no or set boundaries, and you finally heal and move through all that to go from a lifetime of being that to being someone that asserts their no and their boundaries and and doesn't feel shame or guilt about it and stands up for themselves, is about 18 months. And where that number came from was my mentor 40 years of seeing that, and now I could tell you 11 years in, I have clients that will message me and be like, Oh, you're right. It was about 18 months, and it just clicked and clicked, where you look back and you're like, wow, I remember I used to be that way, but I don't remember like, like, I so don't feel that anymore. And so as a practitioner, it's so important to support our clients in remembering and what it is to cross that bridge from the old version of you to the new version of you. And I'm not talking about a bridge like the Golden Gate Bridge solid. I'm talking about Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom. And at moments, you're going to fall back. And when you fall back, you don't need to dig more or go do more or figure out more, you just need to recognize, oh, I had a moment of falling back, and how can I have compassion for myself and get back into alignment and remember the vision and the declarations and the affirmations of who I'm stepping into being? And then there's going to be

moments that the bridge is super stable, and that's when you double down on taking actions in alignment with that new version of you. So as a practitioner, it's helping a client come up with all the different ways that they get to integrate this in the real world. This is an this is active participation. It's not just, oh, okay, we finished our session, so I can count down now 18 months and I'll be good. No, no, you don't just sit back. It takes active participation to integrate it.

Mark Porteous: Well, I appreciate being able to get through all of all the five stages and how deep you went into each of them, for those who are listening, who feel a call to go deeper into their work, to create real, lasting transformation for their clients, while also feeling more grounded and confident in how they feel, how would you invite them to discern whether stepping into a deeper level of training like what you've created is the right step for them?

Yeah, if you find yourself burning out, dissatisfied in your work, doubting yourself, lacking that confidence, or simply not getting enough referrals, I built my whole business the first three years with no website, no social media, no sales page, no affiliates, to a half million dollars because the work worked and the referrals came in. I just got a referral this week from a past client. It never stops. You want to be the last practitioner, the last coach, healer, whatever that they ever need to work with, because that's who they're going to remember, and that's who they're going to refer. And so to get to place where it's effortless in sessions, and effortless to grow your coaching business.

Mark Porteous: I've got two more questions. Yeah, for anybody wants to follow up with you, we'll put all the information in the show notes, but tell us where we can find you.

I hang out on Instagram. If you follow me there, you're gonna get a DM for me within a week, because I love getting to know the human behind the follower. It's me. It's not a bot, it's not an assistant. It is me, because I'm a wealth of resources, whether it's my own or someone else. So that's where I hang out and share my Perry or not. Dot Perry I hang out, but you could always, you know, find, find my work at training camp for the soul calm. And, you know, I have a free giveaway for for the for the audience here, and it's, it's a PDF guide to be able to recognize. In your clients and in yourself, or, by the way, family members, what their bodyguards are? What are their safety strategies, their protectors that are keeping you from actually being with them, getting to work with them in a session, and some of the tips of how to get past the gatekeeper, so to speak. So it's a really great first step access for those of you that looking to go deeper with your clients, or even recognize it in a discovery call and know what to say to get the gatekeeper out of the way and actually get the sale

Mark Porteous: That's beautiful, and thank you for that gift. We'll again have the links in the show notes. One last question, this is leading with purpose? What does leading with purpose mean to you?

Uh, leading with purpose. To me means that even in the moments where I want to quit, I'm sure as entrepreneurs, we all have those moments where it just feels like we're swimming upstream, like we're going through an eye of a needle in our business, and nothing seems to be clicking. There's a lot of output and not a lot of input coming right? A lot of revenue coming that in those moments, we keep our eye on the like, the why that purpose? That bigger purpose, and knowing that this is happening for you, and that there's some, some version of you that needs to shed for that next expansion for you to fulfill the purpose on an even bigger level.

Mark Porteous: Oh, that's beautiful. I love it. Thank you so much. I really appreciate our connection, and thank you for the light that you're shining in the world. Any last words before we say goodbye,

Just remember the only way to feel better is to get better at feeling

Mark Porteous: Beautiful. Thank you so much, and thank you for listening. Please comment below. We'll make sure to respond to any comments questions that you might have, and download that free gift from Anat. Keep shining your light. We'll talk to you soon. Bye.